Curse

Bright Star Shine · Jan 01, 2011, 07:30 PM // 19:30

It's not true that I have never tried, I once had an ambition to get into doing HA, but even most guilds required r3+ if not r6+. I gave up after like 2 months of trying to get some PUG fame, or having to hop from one shitty guild to the other.. But it's still somewhat appealing to me, just can't get to leaving my current guild just for some ambition I had like 3 years ago...

Infectious · Jan 01, 2011, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Infamous

Rank descrimination is there because those of you that complain about it suck. Ive had 2 rank 11 accounts in the past 3 years and both were champ 3 and 4 respectively. Now after i got my newest account ive gotten rank 6 in 4 nights. Stop complaining.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/i...t10464516.html
Playing with friends/guild does not remove rank discrimination.
When you new guys learn to follow instructions, and not be bad, I might consider forming up with unranked pugs.

Reverend Dr · Jan 02, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

The problem is the complaining about rank discrimination itself.

This indicates an attitude of self-importance. While its ultimately based on the individual, the vast majority of people with this attitude, despite what they say, will not listen or coordinate with a team. Take a wild guess what happens when you put someone who won't coordinate with a team and put them in a team game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infectious

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/i...t10464516.html

Haha, wtf is this?

ensoriki · Jan 03, 2011, 11:49 AM // 11:49

Screw Rank discrimination or "Complaining about Rank discrimination".

Hero's Ascent is not a very accessible format, no matter how you slice it.
Putting aside the rank factor, there is still coming up with the builds, even if you say "Im running Xway LFG monk" you still need a monk with that can run Xway or a Warrior that can run Xway, whatever "way" is being run you need that profession to show up. Need to make sure everyones running the build.
Go in find out not everyones competent, people get angry, rage out of group first round and your back where you started.
If your trying to PUG forming the group can be rather time consuming.

Herp derp maybe HA is just flawed as it is now.
Doubt reworking the format would be ideal, because people would just leave because "HA was changed".

Missing HB · Jan 03, 2011, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

If your trying to PUG forming the group can be rather time consuming.

Herp derp maybe HA is just flawed as it is now.
Doubt reworking the format would be ideal, because people would just leave because "HA was changed".

That's why allowing hench teams is the only solution to make more players play the format . I don't believe it would be such a problem for r11 balas or bbways holding 24/7 to beat it , the only annoying thing can be from easy gankings on hall map maybe ...( but that's already the case now anyway..). Since there would be more teams , i don't believe the " i will make teams with my sec accs " help since there would be many teams in at anytime then....
Once again , i hope they will think of it since they wanted to allow 7 heroes for PvE... Making PvE easier and leaving PvP as sh-- as it is wouldn't be smart....

Rank discrimination will never disappear : knowing players mentality , let's consider this example : it's 5 am , setting sun farming halls 1v1 , we're 6/8 monks missing. Even with serious monks it's not easy to win hall as red 1v1 , so why would we take non exped or blahks/tutella that won't target ghost ? It's worth trying of course , better play than not , but the result is obvious...

Reverend Dr · Jan 03, 2011, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

If your trying to PUG forming the group can be rather time consuming.

You're acting like forming a non-pug isn't time consuming.

diabiosx · Jan 03, 2011, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Screw Rank discrimination or "Complaining about Rank discrimination".

Hero's Ascent is not a very accessible format, no matter how you slice it.
Putting aside the rank factor, there is still coming up with the builds, even if you say "Im running Xway LFG monk" you still need a monk with that can run Xway or a Warrior that can run Xway, whatever "way" is being run you need that profession to show up. Need to make sure everyones running the build.
Go in find out not everyones competent, people get angry, rage out of group first round and your back where you started.
If your trying to PUG forming the group can be rather time consuming.

Herp derp maybe HA is just flawed as it is now.
Doubt reworking the format would be ideal, because people would just leave because "HA was changed".

I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately this is what GW1 is, using 64skills out of 1000s to chose from, from their magic the gathering concept, which works good on paper but can be left without for the longevity of this game. Most beginners have no idea what skills do, therefore they can never make a strong bar, most dont even know the existance of pvxwiki and most of the templates in pvxwiki are not optimal. I really think by now there has been so many team builds created that Anet can really just create a HA arena where your templates are preset much like costume brawl, that way the beginners can just load a powerful bar without worrying if the build even works.(they are somewhat doing this in GW2 with preset weapon skills) Hell they should've made rank role based, it just makes more sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

You're acting like forming a non-pug isn't time consuming.

Well building a friends list(non-pug) is the most time consuming and even when you have a solid friends list, you cant really play whenever you want, you have to rely on your friends list being online.

ensoriki · Jan 04, 2011, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

You're acting like forming a non-pug isn't time consuming.

I know it is, but I mention pugs, because if you have them going on in abundance you know the format is moving and lively.
GW2's hot join rooms will probably eradicate this problem, since people just wanting to get in can just join a room with the easy accessibility, while allowing more serious efforts to exist.

Infectious · Jan 04, 2011, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Who here that is actually good at any form of PvP uses PvXwiki?
Only thing that place is good for is finding out the flavor of the moment SC/farming builds.

placetoguru · Feb 03, 2011, 06:12 AM // 06:12

OK i have a quick input that will greatly help all nubs in HA. believe it or not EVERYONE was once r0 in HA. but how do we all get ranks so easily???!@#$

cuz we have a F**king brain and we use it!
get off your asses and form teams, run gay bbways or invoke spikes. ask for r7+ even if u are unranked. USE vent and dont say anything retarded and i PROMISE u that people wont question your rank because they want to be in a team as much as you do. and if they question you on your rank just kick them and get a new pug.

Its really not that hard to get r3 (180 fame). by doing the method above you will be able to farm your bambi in a matter of weeks and at the same time you will make valuable contacts.

so dont sit in id1 looking for a group for 3 hours. just play american/euro hours when others play as well and form your own groups. And if you still can't get fame this way its because you are bad and most likely need to work on calling and tactics.

superraptors · Feb 03, 2011, 06:18 AM // 06:18

lol long message short:

form your own groups and talk alot of shit

placetoguru · Feb 03, 2011, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by superraptors

lol long message short:

form your own groups and talk alot of shit

yes. but dont just shit talk random people. pick them out on minor mistakes, try and make your self look better than u really are. 9/10 pugs wont question the leaders rank so u should be golden most of the time anyway

Megera · Feb 03, 2011, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by placetoguru

yes. but dont just shit talk random people. pick them out on minor mistakes, try and make your self look better than u really are. 9/10 pugs wont question the leaders rank so u should be golden most of the time anyway

You know, the way I understand this thread is:

The PvPers: Guys, we need more fresh blood, cause only the same people play HA these days.
The PvEers: You discriminate us and now ask us to play?!?!
You: Well, sit on your a**es and do something, you *put something insulting here*.
The PvEers: Well, you can **** ***! You're the ones who need us, so it's not our problem.

And in the end, this goes nowhere. The point was: you misunderstood the reason for creating this thread. The PvP crowd needs the PvE one, not the other way around.

Missing HB · Feb 03, 2011, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by placetoguru

OK i have a quick input that will greatly help all nubs in HA. believe it or not EVERYONE was once r0 in HA. but how do we all get ranks so easily???!@#$

cuz we have a F**king brain and we use it!
get off your asses and form teams, run gay bbways or invoke spikes. ask for r7+ even if u are unranked. USE vent and dont say anything retarded and i PROMISE u that people wont question your rank because they want to be in a team as much as you do. and if they question you on your rank just kick them and get a new pug.

Its really not that hard to get r3 (180 fame). by doing the method above you will be able to farm your bambi in a matter of weeks and at the same time you will make valuable contacts.

so dont sit in id1 looking for a group for 3 hours. just play american/euro hours when others play as well and form your own groups. And if you still can't get fame this way its because you are bad and most likely need to work on calling and tactics.

That post could be true if we were in 2006-2007. Unfortunately , everyone was r0 but not on same period. back in 2006 , there were full districts and a lot of players unranked ( thus less players much exped). this means it was easier for everyone to get fights , and there was also not any restart.

The rest of the post is as pathetic thus i won't really argue about it . However , you also need to know that whether you are bad , r0 or r15 , if there is noone to fight you won't go far.....
That's a problem people need to realize. Almost everymorning , there is setting sun holding 1v1 halls , whereas there is NOONE in( or 1 randomway from their sec accs). However , people are still wasting hours trying to form a r11+ balanced. What's the point ??

placetoguru · Feb 03, 2011, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

That post could be true if we were in 2006-2007. Unfortunately , everyone was r0 but not on same period. back in 2006 , there were full districts and a lot of players unranked ( thus less players much exped). this means it was easier for everyone to get fights , and there was also not any restart.

The rest of the post is as pathetic thus i won't really argue about it . However , you also need to know that whether you are bad , r0 or r15 , if there is noone to fight you won't go far.....
That's a problem people need to realize. Almost everymorning , there is setting sun holding 1v1 halls , whereas there is NOONE in( or 1 randomway from their sec accs). However , people are still wasting hours trying to form a r11+ balanced. What's the point ??

did i or did i not say farm american/euro hours??? any other time is pointless unless u make a good team and have at least 2 second accounts to make random ways with to feed your self in halls.
also to who ever said we NEED the pve community, we really dont, i dont want more useless r6 kids who know nothing but uw grinding. also new comers to HA are pathetic in how they try and find groups. i see them all the time saying r0 ele LFG......yeah gl with that approach

Martin Alvito · Feb 03, 2011, 05:18 PM // 17:18

The problem in GW PvP is, and always will be, the combination of four factors:

- Rewards very disproportionately accrue to the strongest teams
- One player's failings have a large impact on the overall performance of a team
- Most people play PvP for the rewards
- The learning curve is extremely steep

The result is that established teams have little incentive to help new players out. Investing time in developing complete noobs into real players takes too long to pay off, and relatively few players have the dedication to fight through the long period of failure that precedes eventual success. This yields a constant population decline; skilled players leave faster than they can be replaced.

I don't see a solution that produces the complete result the community desires. Tweaking the reward structure to compensate teams for carrying new players would just result in the use of unestablished alternate accounts by already skilled players. Altering the reward structure so that skilled teams are not disproportionately rewarded leads to time > skill. Making PvP easier reduces the opportunities to demonstrate skill, and again yields time > skill.

Gabriel of Ravn · Feb 03, 2011, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by placetoguru

did i or did i not say farm american/euro hours??? any other time is pointless unless u make a good team and have at least 2 second accounts to make random ways with to feed your self in halls.
also to who ever said we NEED the pve community, we really dont, i dont want more useless r6 kids who know nothing but uw grinding. also new comers to HA are pathetic in how they try and find groups. i see them all the time saying r0 ele LFG......yeah gl with that approach

This post is quite sad. HA is laying in a ditch pretty much for players that think like this.

Avalanche · Feb 03, 2011, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Okay, so i haven't read through all the 16 sites, but here's an idea.
How about some exp high ranked HA players offer to coach people through gwguru.
For example, post a time + date + whats professions are needed (inside the pug section). Then people sign up for it and you go play a few rounds. So you can grow new HA players through guru. Once people learned some more about HA they can start making their own groups without getting completly stomped and therefor quit due to frustration.

I know that someone probably gonna bash this for whatever reason but before doing so come up with a better idea.

Martin Alvito · Feb 03, 2011, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avalanche

I know that someone probably gonna bash this for whatever reason but before doing so come up with a better idea.

Don't play. Experienced players voted with their feet. As others have pointed out, the players that would respond would largely tend to have poor attitudes and not be worth the time investment.

I do have a real solution, though. What is needed is some sort of less prestigious PvP system that produces published individual rankings. That way, players could work on developing individual skill in that format and separate themselves from the generally lousy pool of candidates you'd get if you openly recruited to train for GvG or HA without restriction.

Suppose a Random Arenas format existed where the teams were scrambled every match and you couldn't leave after winning in order to attempt a resync without getting dishonor. Now also suppose that it kept track of your results by character class, so that the entire top 100 was not full of Monks. Now suppose that it reset every month in order to avoid punishing you for being bad in the past. Finally, suppose that it didn't give out any rewards other than ratings increases and decreases, and calculated that on the basis of the strength of your team and your opponents.

That system would let good teams in need of players easily identify those players that are serious about getting better at PvP and are worth investing time in...assuming you could keep it sufficiently populated with players.

placetoguru · Feb 03, 2011, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Don't play. Experienced players voted with their feet. As others have pointed out, the players that would respond would largely tend to have poor attitudes and not be worth the time investment.

I do have a real solution, though. What is needed is some sort of less prestigious PvP system that produces published individual rankings. That way, players could work on developing individual skill in that format and separate themselves from the generally lousy pool of candidates you'd get if you openly recruited to train for GvG or HA without restriction.

Suppose a Random Arenas format existed where the teams were scrambled every match and you couldn't leave after winning in order to attempt a resync without getting dishonor. Now also suppose that it kept track of your results by character class, so that the entire top 100 was not full of Monks. Now suppose that it reset every month in order to avoid punishing you for being bad in the past. Finally, suppose that it didn't give out any rewards other than ratings increases and decreases, and calculated that on the basis of the strength of your team and your opponents.

That system would let good teams in need of players easily identify those players that are serious about getting better at PvP and are worth investing time in...assuming you could keep it sufficiently populated with players.

i actually thought his idea was good and i would be happy to devote some of my time too it. and srsly lets be honest. Anet aren't going to do shit for us. Maybe we could start some sort of Guild Wars Guru HA training event. were we get 2 or so good players and 6 new/semi good players from guru and we set the event up with a-net and have it on the notice board when people sign in.